I hate to sound boring, but I don't really buy into these elaborate theories about everything being part of some intricately-coordinated global control scheme. I actually think the truth is much simpler, and much more depressing and dull. Trump I think was exactly what he appeared to be: a businessman of moderate intelligence who saw that the country was being mismanaged, had enough business sense to see that it could run much better if certain policies were reversed, and had enough money and media savvy to carve out a strategy to get himself elected. He seems to have viewed the problem through a mostly economic lens; I've never had the impression that he cares all that much about racial issues one way or the other, and most cultural issues were either of secondary importance or just something he used to drum up support. The view of him as some kind of racist white advocate or the second coming of Hitler was almost entirely cooked up by the left, and the handful of /pol/acks who were dumb enough to believe their own memes. From what I can tell Trump is a boomer through and through and believes what most boomers believe: that America is some kind of rich multicultural melting-pot built on "Judeo-Christian" values. "Make America Great Again" basically meant restoring the pre-1960s, post-WWII idea of America that probably never existed outside of wartime propaganda.
I honestly think he was well-intentioned, and comparatively speaking he was a decent enough President. Better than anyone who has had the job during my lifetime, at any rate technically I was alive for Reagan but he left office when I was pretty little, so I usually don't count him
. However he wasn't the savior of the white race or the champion of western civilization or anything like that, nor do I think he ever intended to be. He (mostly) rejected open-borders globalism, but he still believed in "melting-pot" multiracial America, hence his enthusiastic pandering to blacks and "legal" immigrants. All in all his presidency was a mixed bag, but it was better than what we would likely have had if the 2016 election had gone the other way.
By the same logic, I don't really believe the memes about the establishment and moderate-left politicians being knowing or willing actors in some global chess game either. I think they, too, are pretty much exactly what they appear to be: short-sighted careerists and white collar criminals. The absolute best of them are just clever but not terribly intelligent career bureaucrats who approach government the same way such people would approach a private-sector corporate job. They just do whatever makes them look good and allows them to move up the ladder another notch. If they're lucky enough to make it into the big chair for four years, they work to get some meaningless piece of bullshit legislation passed that they can hang on the wall and call a legacy, and then retire to a life of writing books and giving paid speeches. People like Kamala Harris and Cory Booker I would say fall into this category. The worst of them are people like the Clintons and the Obamas, basically sociopaths and white-collar mobsters. They care about being rich and powerful and not much else, and have generally no scruples about what methods they use to get there.
Maybe there's some grand puppetmaster hiding behind the curtain somewhere directing all of this, but if so I think most of the actual manipulation is done through donors and lobbying and shit like that; the politicians themselves are probably either unaware that they're being manipulated, or they're just too greedy and shortsighted to care. Anyway, Trump I think was mostly just clueless, not malicious. He pissed off the club by circumventing their unwritten rules and getting elected without the club's approval, so the club joined forces and took him down. There's probably not much else to the story.
Alright, Anon, alright. Bear with me here.
So you have come to the conclusion that there was no 4D chess, and Q was full of shit. Okay. Now, please, consider this:
What if he was just a decent businessman who decided to run for president, got elected, and everything he said was to be taken at face value, because he had nothing to lose? What if both the "based" and "cucked" policies he demonstrated are actually things he believes in, and he really was just your average slightly-right-leaning boomer? Would you accept such an Occam's razor solution? Are you willing to consider that everything else is just being projected onto him, just as it was with the whole 4D chess thing?
Yes, everything else is still worth discussing. The virus, the memedemic, the great reset, all of it. Go ahead. (Also, do check the respective threads for those topics.) But since you started with Trump, the first step would be to accept that he might just be your average mild and watered down neocon with the added value of an unusual amount of honesty. No, he wasn't the nationalist savior, but I think you'll notice on closer inspection that he never even claimed to be that. So, please, at least consider my advice and put that one to rest, just so you can avoid distractions and falling for the same meme again.
Fuck, dude. I had to wait until you write a reply because if we did that at the same time too, it would've been way too spooky.
I am basically in agreement with >>299415
about Trump. I don't think he was a deep state plant or a 4d chessmaster, I think he's just a shitposting boomer that was pissed off with how the establishment was running things and thought he could do it better, although outside of a few things like the wall and a less neoconservative foreign policy he really only had a vague idea of how to do that. Add to that a neoliberal Jew in the form of his son-in-law Kushner manipulating him through Ivanka and some really inadvisable cabinet appointments, and you get a president whose rhetoric excited the sorts of people coastal urbanite douchebags look down their noses at, and a mess of policies, good and bad. I think Trump's historical significance is in how much he exposed the establishment.
Sounds like a narrative that has more of a continuous set of curves than whatever Q cooked up.>>299416>Are you willing to consider that everything else is just being projected onto him, just as it was with the whole 4D chess thing?
I wasn't around the chans when this was going on, but I still stand by my assertion that while there's certainly no 4D chess game being played, to claim that Trump would knowingly make a deal with literal communists and actively hand over the US to the Chinese, thereby screwing over millions and millions of Americans (least of all his livelihood and that of his family), sounds just as outlandish to me. He may not be some genius that can play 4D chess, but I think he would certainly be smarter than that, to trust communists to hold up their end of the deal. In other words, to extend the metaphor, I think 2D chess should be just fine to explain what's going on here. Perhaps 2.5D if you count all the glowshit that the public eye can't see.
>>299422>Trump's historical significance is in how much he exposed the establishment.
And assuming the US in its current form survives that long, the establishment of the USSF. However the future looks like, if that branch survives, it will be the thing that history books will always mention.>>299423>knowingly make a deal with literal communists and actively hand over the US to the Chinese
Mind explaining that one? Most of the complaints of the opposition were about him antagonizing
China and being too friendly with Russia.
In any case, cucking to foreign interests, sometimes even unknowingly, is the main negative trait of that whole generation. The problem starts with the ties to Israel in the first place, and that goes for the whole government, dating back for decades at the least, not just Trump's administration. Everything else after that shouldn't be too surprising.
>>299424>The problem starts with the ties to Israel in the first place
They don't seem to be letting up on that one.>>knowingly make a deal with literal communists and actively hand over the US to the Chinese>Mind explaining that one? Most of the complaints of the opposition were about him antagonizing China and being too friendly with Russia.
No offense meant, but isn't it obvious? Trump's administration had been blaming the Chinese for all kinds of things ever since the 6th. His DNI even blamed them for trying to finance rigging the election (or at least be closely involved somehow). Meanwhile Trump supporters have been accusing Biden of having close ties across the Pacific, and by contrast if he all of a sudden got chummy with the chicoms it would be seen as a good thing, since it was opposite of what orange man would do.
Ah, yes, okay. You're implying that that the reps and dems were collaborating, through the charade of opposing public opinions, to the same goal of getting closer the China, correct? With Trump as the setup and Biden as the conclusion.
I posit to you then, that this same effect could've been achieved without Trump ever knowing about it. His "put pressure on China" thing could've been genuine. Or an advice from some sort of (((advisor))). It could've even been that he knew about the plan, and tried to act against it, only to end up playing his part more effectively. If you are right, then anything he does contributes to the same predetermined conclusion. People holding public office, including the presidency, really are just people who can be manipulated the same way every else can be.
From where I sit, the most probable of these is that he was not a willing participant in this, even if we take your prediction for granted. The way the whole establishment reacted to him would suggest as much - it seems they really did just fear, and focus to get rid of, the unknown variable.
>>299439>Ah, yes, okay. You're implying that that the reps and dems were collaborating, through the charade of opposing public opinions, to the same goal of getting closer the China, correct?
Well, not exactly. We're approaching the limits of my knowledge when it comes to RINOs, but in this case I don't think it would be going too far out on a limb to say they were bullied like the SC probably was into toeing the Party line. But the effect would likely be the same since they've been pushovers anyway.>this same effect could've been achieved without Trump ever knowing about it
We're in agreement here, until,>only to end up playing his part more effectively. If you are right, then anything he does contributes to the same predetermined conclusion. People holding public office, including the presidency, really are just people who can be manipulated the same way every else can be.
They would've found a way to do it anyway. I don't think Trump was unwittingly helping them, a win is a win. Whatever gains Trump made when it comes to rooting out Chinese influence on American soil is merely gonna get spun as a bad thing by the MSM, and to not do so would make things worse than if he hadn't done them at all. Maybe they can manipulate the public image of Trump to the people they've still got plugged in, but to them from where I'm sitting, the man himself seems still very much rogue.>From where I sit, the most probable of these is that he was not a willing participant in this, even if we take your prediction for granted. The way the whole establishment reacted to him would suggest as much - it seems they really did just fear, and focus to get rid of, the unknown variable.
Definitely. I would go on to say that I don't think they've succeeded just yet. I'm waiting for him to either make a visible move or say it's over. I can't imagine he'd have any incentive to keep his mouth shut and just let people slowly realize they've been played; that only helps the chinks, not him whatsoever.
>>299415>I hate to sound boring, but I don't really buy into these elaborate theories about everything being part of some intricately-coordinated global control scheme. I actually think the truth is much simpler, and much more depressing and dull.
I do agree with like all of what you're saying but I would say it's basically a bit of both. As you say they don't have to use actors since fools and theives exist in the world. But the jews make sure to hold onto the wheel regardless of circumstance.
Jews do hold key positions in society, even though they are a ridiculous small minority in the US. There is clearly an agenda to destory the white race. The only ones that can run such a scheme are the people in positions of power so it has to be the jews.
But as you sort of state here:>Maybe there's some grand puppetmaster hiding behind the curtain somewhere directing all of this, but if so I think most of the actual manipulation is done through donors and lobbying and shit like that
The invisible rulers of the world probably avoid micromanaging.
>>299424>In any case, cucking to foreign interests, sometimes even unknowingly, is the main negative trait of that whole generation.
I figured out a big part of the problem with that generation when I was talking to my boomer father a while ago. We were talking about the Bill Cosby rape thing for whatever reason, and he was saying how shocked he was by it. His whole reasoning was that Cosby had this image as "America's Dad" or whatever the fuck back in the 1980s, and he couldn't believe he would do something like that. It seemed ridiculous to me to assume that just because an actor had a persona on TV that it would automatically be a reflection of who they are in real life, but I think that's just how that generation grew up looking at things. Media was sacred to them. They all idolized Kennedy in the 1960s because he was basically a TV character, and it was a major TV event when he got shot. MLK and all the civil rights stuff was the same way, everything was fed to them directly by the TV news media, and they just saw it as their window to the world; I don't think it ever occurred to most of them that they might be getting propagandized or that what they were seeing had a deliberate spin to it. The most successful presidents since then have been the ones who had a strong TV and media persona, most notably Clinton and Obama. Trump and Reagan were the only conservatives to ever figure this out and use it to their advantage, which is basically why they're the only "iconic" conservatives. The whole generation was molded by media, and most of them even now get most of their information from one or two sources that they have a weird religious devotion to. On the left it's CNN and MSNBC and that kind of shit, and on the right it's Fox News and Breitbart. Those sources all stay within the general narrative that Israel is our greatest ally and America is the leader of the "free world" and we're the diverse "melting-pot" and the "shining city on the hill," and whatever the fuck else, so you can't dislodge any of those ideas from the mind of any boomer. The only thing any foreign interest has to do to to win over the boomers is to just get a foothold in media.>>299452>Jews do hold key positions in society, even though they are a ridiculous small minority in the US. There is clearly an agenda to destory the white race.
That may be true, but I think it's an oversimplification. I think there are plenty of other actors out there that are working against the US and the West in general, most notably China, and I don't think their interests all necessarily align or that they are working for or with each other. China is clearly hoping to replace the US as the primary economic and military power in the next century, and its in their interests to ruin us economically and make us internally weak. They probably had some sort of hand in whatever shady business was going on that tipped the election to Biden at 3 AM. Investment companies with direct ties to the CCP own large shares in US media corporations and all of our big tech companies.
Much of the subversion that went on in the second half of the twentieth century was carried out directly by the Soviets, and they had a lot of plants in entertainment and academia. Granted, there are a lot of Bergs and Steins on that list, but that doesn't necessarily mean that Communism was part of some secret Jew plot; those individuals were probably used as part of some Communist plot and their being Jews could have had nothing to do with it. Or maybe their natural Jewiness and desire to confound the goyim was exploited by the Soviets. "Useful idiot" was the term the Kremlin used to describe the Westerners who went around championing the ideals of Communism, and most of the Jewish academics and entertainers who were commie-sympathetic would fit this category.
Also of note is that Israel itself is not in a particularly good position these days. They're surrounded by enemies, and their growing Palestinian minority is threatening to eventually outnumber and outvote them the same as with Mexicans and other immigrant groups in the US. Most of the left-liberal factions in Western countries that are supposedly part of the Jewish subversion plot are pro-Palestine. The US is probably the only major power that still gives a shit about Israel, so it hardly makes sense for them to want the US to lose its superpower status or to become economically or militarily weakened. If they're secretly controlling the world they're doing a pretty shit job of it.
I'm not trying to say I think Jews are good or that they aren't trying to fuck over Whites in their own way, but they're not the only bad actor out there, and they're certainly not the most powerful or dangerous. Everybody wants to rule the world, as they say.
>>299463>I figured out a big part of the problem with that generation when I was talking to my boomer father a while ago.>TV truth
I mean, I don't want to be a downer, but I really do see the same pattern in the following generations too, just with other media. I do hope that there is a positive trend in there somewhere, but the phenomenon haven't fully disappeared, that's for sure. It wasn't just boomers buying into the whole 4D chess meme.
And I did have a similarly enlightening conversation, except I just straight up brought it up. A "why did you let this happen?" kind of convo, really. And the answer I got was a painfully real "we were already in the political minority, and so decided to just keep our jobs and lay low so that you fags can be born". Paraphrasing, of course.>If they're secretly controlling the world they're doing a pretty shit job of it.
There are whole different perspectives about what control means though. You might say that a given region belongs to its native people or current population or whichever way you'd lean on that one, depending on context.
The local nigger/gypsy gang leader on the other hand would say something along the lines of:>I can get anyone to do my bidding when I threaten them, and I can get away with it as long as there are no witnesses. This is my territory.
The modern muslim invader goes:>We have whole districts where only our laws apply, and the armed forces of this country don't act against it. You are second class citizens, we are the lords.
And the jew typically opts for:>Your tax dollars arrive in my pocket, the media says what I prescribe, and even talking against me is a crime
^I'm talking from personal IRL experience on the first 2, by the way. (Good luck getting an actually honest admission on the third one.) Point is, in their own retarded interpretation, they really do fancy themselves in control. And you know what? If enough time passes without anyone challenging this, then to an extent, they really fucking are.
it occurred to me while watching trump speak on the 6th, he really kind of fucked his supporters over. everyone trucked in from out of state, camped out, spent money traveling and whatnot. that riot happened, and anyone who went to DC will now be associated with it. a lot of people have already lost their jobs, been banned on social media, even turned over to feds by family members. and trump just disavows. he encouraged everyone to come, promised things would be wild. things certainly were. but he also promised shocking revelations, and that's something the DC rally didn't provide. the riot kind of glossed over the fact that his last speech was a dud instead of a bombshell.
i'm not at all adverse to considering trump to have been a plant. everyone who ever posted on social media in favor of him can now be banned as a terrorist. it silenced a lot of voices. i mean come on. what did he really do in office? nothing that couldn't be undone with the stroke of the next POTUS's pen in five minutes. those do nothing AGs were probably his handlers. he either got played, or played his part. even the stolen election stuff. because it basically is bait for anyone on the right to do literally anything. any action feeds the right wing terror boogeyman narrative, and is justification for more tyranny. they're throwing it in our faces and daring us to do something, anything. any act, from the most violent form of retaliation, to an angry twitter post, will fail and be pathetic, and be infinitely stomped on by the hobnailed boot of leftist authoritarianism. the bad thing is, we all know statistically how stupid people are. it's probable that someone will take the bait. at the least, bad social media postings will scuttle a few careers, leaving openings for more tranny niggers.
Trump is just what happens when an outsider tries to rewire America's war economy without the permission of the establishment. An establishment that has spent the better part of their careers upholding it simply because it works and it would be a lot of effort to move away from it. Whether it's a president or a state governor, they don't really want anything to change, even the racial stuff they tend to pull is only because they see people in terms of economic value rather than cultural or racial.
They pander to "minorities" because they represent a growing consumer base that is easily convinced. While Trump appealed to white america because they would fuel homegrown civilian manufacturing. The fact of the matter is that everything we see today is the result of a secular, nihilistic ideology that espouses economic efficiency as it relates to globalisation. Some of them want to be on top of the pile with all the power, others believe it's for the greater good of everyone, both believe that anyone against increased globalisation and technological integration is a threat.
Pic very related.
>>299415>>299416>what if , just what if, conspiracy theories are wrong and the government is just incompetant
do you two really expect this shit to fly around here?
you cant exactly hide amidst a sea of flags here either hungary fag. you've been pulling this shit for a while now.
its nice to see inbetween all the obvious admittedly high effort shilling here we have someone who has a clear head on their shoulders posting in my thread instead of the paper thin excuses and politically fatigued blackpilled anons eager to scarf down anything they say, even if it means deluding themselves that shit like you describe didn't happen. The goverment either is capable of doing stuff like pizza gate and 9/11 or it isn't. Anyones allowed their own opinion but it's clear where most authentic posters stand on this issues.
Not everyone is a shill because they disagree with you anon. In fact, I'm having trouble pinpointing where any of us did. The statements you've given so far have seemed a bit contradictory.>it's clear where most authentic posters stand on this issues
You know, there is always exactly one poster calling people shills without actually pointing out how they're supposed to be shills. Interestingly enough, the same doesn't happen in actual shill threads. Take that as you will.
And how many Hungary flags do you expect actually post here? Hint: The number is most likely less than 4. From that, anyone can extrapolate my actual stance and opinions within a reasonable margin of error. So why would someone still try to sell that the poster saying Q's effect was damaging and these people should be shown how they believed in bullshit and embrace how they're questioning things now at least? >>298808 →
Or why would a shill react like this when it comes to actual fucking larps? >>299453 →
You are either legitimately retarded, or trying to get us descend into the chaos of calling each other shills and glowies in every thread. And no, you really can't hide among the posts here, especially if you keep consistently starting your sentences with lower case letters, and calling at least one person a shill every day.
The pissraeli mossad did 9/11 and destroyed three towers with two planes.
Maybe Trump was a massive faggot unwilling to do anything to the jew machine because he was afraid of putting him, his retirement, and his family in danger.
I hope all his supporters become literal Hitler fans.
Trump's days are gone and he is now a monument. Don't shit on a monument. what are you, a fucking pigeon?
Trump may have cucked out but he did well on his part. He might have had some flaws but now with Biden in office we all will have some fucking compare and contrast to do.
A monument to what, the fact that he did nothing to try and prevent election fraud?
>>299508>infact we dont disagree goyim
You are right that just because someone disagrees with me they are not a shill, but rather, suddenly, this thread is full of posters who insist beyond a shadow of all dobut, after conspiracy and conspiracy in good standing in our communities, that the idea that trump is more than just a boomer is outragious. Never ascribe to maliciousness what could be ascribed to incompetence
This attitude, and the very popularity of "conspiracy theory" as a derogatory term, was caused, proliferated, and popularized entirely by federal agents at the CIA and FBI. It was done to completely discredit anyone who criticising government officials and agencies that work against the publics best interest. No there is actually a fucking pretty logical reason I am calling you all out on it. It's literally the most damaging attitude and psy op ever inflicted on the american public.
Faggot I literally pointed attention to the pandemic hoax in this very thread. In the very first post. I called Q a psyop over and over in different threads. I expressed my opinion about the jewish ties in the government. Nobody fucking said that no conspiracies exist, or that there is nothing under the surface. That is a straw man that you came up with, and proceeded to valiantly defeat it. Congratulations.
If you suspect that there was more to Trump than being a boomer, then go ahead. Nobody said even once that they are 100% certain that this is not the case, we just posted our initial opinions on the topic. How about actually making your case instead of screaming at everyone who even slightly disagreed with you a shill? No, seriously. Is there anyone left on this board in whose face you have yet thrown the accusation?
Well, this is awkward. I guess you're just going to keep shitting up your own thread with braindead responses that show you clearly haven't read any of the discussion that was actually making it interesting. Have fun with that, I guess. Henceforth whatever insult you decide to hurl my way will be met with an imaginary "you're a faggot." Wish I could say it's been a pleasure.
One leader in a tribe of fools is as useless as setting a campfire in the ocean. That blue uncaring ocean...
What if, when person A gets called a shill by Person B, he asks Person B to explain why he believes this?
Not a good job of using doubletalk. Your first failure is when you tried to use the disillusionment of >>>"conspiracy theory"<<< as a positive-inductive reaction by indirectly & complicitly implying anyone whom supports said "conspiracy theory" is a potential positive without explaining the negatives ie: through blackpilling
. Second failure was attempting to reinforce that doubletalk/doublethink maymay stance by stating any lack criticism AGAINST that specific type of psyop is moderately equivalent to being sheeple. You can't lie in three directions at once. One? Sure, until someone catches on. Two? Maybe, depending on whom is being lied to. Three? Not a chance. Fact checking is a vital skill for anons to master. You failed the test. There was no
(((conspiracy theory))) to begin with, both Drumpf and Pence were kike-allied zionists from the start. Both visited Epstein's child-rape-murder-dungeon island a minimum of 8 times each, got major kickbacks from the ADL & related lobbying terrorist orgs, and had no qualms fucking over the common man that simply wants to live their life the way they want to without goobermint interference.
Havent heard that name in forever, thanks for the remknder
More Rose at >>252419 →
You may want to browse Larken's jewtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/LarkenRose/videos
Also a critical analysis of the average NPC conservatard and how is toyed by the establishment: >>282496 →
That sounds like a good plan. If you want to call someone a shill then give a good explanation as to why you think they are a shill. This way people can explain themselves if they aren't a shill, and it will make it harder for shills to employ FUD tactics against us.
What if the people saying "We must not rebel" are feds trying to entrap us into saying "We must rebel by performing illegal acts"?
What if the people trying to use personal attacks to derail productive conversations into mud-slinging matches are faggoted feds?
What if the people saying "Your action idea is stupid" without explaining why AND offering up better alternative actions are feds trying to give us crippling depression?
This would be so much easier if feds had to identify themselves with some special symbol. Any disingenuous behaviour could be from a fed/shareblue/correcttherecord shill, or just stupidity from someone used to acting that way on forums/reddits where everyone acts that way.
>>299668>What if the people trying to use personal attacks to derail productive conversations into mud-slinging matches are faggoted feds?
They could be anything from feds, through JIDF-like vigilant warriors, right down to literal faggots from obscure lefty sites akin to the spoilered image in >>>/qa/5384 →
But the tactic itself is ages old, and thankfully doesn't work very well on slower boards.
>>299670>But the tactic itself is ages old, and thankfully doesn't work very well on slower boards.
Yep. No special symbol required, I don't think.>>299668>Any disingenuous behaviour could be from a fed/shareblue/correcttherecord shill, or just stupidity from someone used to acting that way on forums/reddits where everyone acts that way.
The difference is minimal in its effects. They're both doing the same thing, either by stupidity or maliciousness, or perhaps both.>>299534>>299661
Did he not already state his case? It just was a terrible one cooked up by a retard trying to fling shit like a monkey. Maybe it wasn't so readily identifiable because it resembled word salad.
Regardless, I honestly don't care all that much if people think of me as a shill or not, if someone thinks I am then let them, I suppose. They were just going to form their own opinion anyway. I think I've spent enough time ITT so I'll try to step aside and let everyone else figure it out now.